How can i cool down this 604 GM Crate Motor

[Starnes_Car14]

:wtf1: I have went to the smallest washer for the thermostat housing, changed radiators, changed several fans, ran different coolants, and still can't get this dang thing to cool down. Its runs around 235-240 degrees at the end of the race. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[camlobe]

This is from circle track magizine........... http://circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0507_heat_1_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0507_heat_1_z.jpg',640,480)) Heat kills power. Heat damages parts. Oh, and heat robs the driver of his stamina, reflexes, and concentration. Bad stuff all around, and that's why we've compiled this list of ways to beat the heat when it comes to racing--everything from making sure your radiator is working efficiently, to keeping the air/fuel charge cool, to keeping your driver comfortable. To do this, we've contacted many of the industry leaders in their respective categories for hints and tips on keeping excess heat at bay, and they responded with some pretty interesting stuff. Of course, this is still racing, so there is no way we can turn the inside of your Super Late Model on an Alabama track in August into a cool dip in a mountain stream, but many of these tips can help you keep heat losses to a manageable level.






Fluids

http://circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0507_heat_2_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0507_heat_2_z.jpg',480,640)) Engine coolant "boosters," such as Royal Purple's Purple Ice, work by lowering the water's surface tension. This allows more efficient heat transfer from the metal in the engine to the coolant. When the hot coolant reaches the radiator, it also means it can more easily transfer its heat to the radiator.
We're talking about the car's fluids, not yours--lubricants and coolants, specifically.

It's a well-known fact that when it comes to lubricants and oils, synthetics are less susceptible to thermal breakdown than mineral-based lubricants. But that isn't the only way you can use your race car's lubricants to lower heat. The primary purpose of oil is to reduce friction. Reducing friction increases horsepower and torque, as you already know, but it also reduces the heat that is a by-product of the friction. This is also true in the transmission and rear end, where more efficient oils can reduce the heat produced from driving the gears.

Royal Purple's engineers also tell us that the motor oil you use can also aid the combustion chamber seal at the rings. By providing a better seal between the cylinder wall and the piston rings, Royal Purple says its oils can lead to a 12 percent reduction in coolant temperature. As proof, the company says that it performed used thermal imagery testing on a V-twin motorcycle engine to find that the oil temperature can be reduced 25 to 44 degrees F with just an oil change.

When it comes to the coolant in your engine and radiator, additives are also a popular way to knock the temperatures down. A good example is Royal Purple's Purple Ice coolant additive. These "coolant boosters" work by reducing the surface tension of the coolant (plain old water seems to work best), which allows better heat transfer from the metal in the engine into the coolant, and then from the coolant to the radiator. A secondary benefit from coolant additives like Purple Ice is that they also inhibit corrosion and scaling inside the engine, which is important because excessive scale buildup inhibits the flow of coolant through the engine and can lead to hot spots.

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The Hard Facts on Coolant Boosters

As part of its testing, Royal Purple performed dyno runs checking engine temperatures to see how different mixtures of coolant performed. Here are the numbers they provided us:

50/50 mix of water and antifreeze 228 degrees F
50/50 mix of water and antifreeze with Purple Ice added 222 degrees F
Water only 220 degrees F
Water with Purple Ice added 200 degrees F

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Radiator

http://circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0507_heat_3_s.jpg (javascript:Zoom('http://circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0507_heat_3_z.jpg',640,480)) Chris Paulsen of C&R Radiator says that choosing the proper fin count is important for determining the right performance for your car. Slower, tighter tracks mean less airflow and require more spacing between the fins.
The used Nextel Cup parts market is a great thing for Saturday-night racers trying to find more performance on a budget. But many racers have made a big mistake purchasing a used radiator out of a Nextel Cup car and installing it into their short-track machine. When racing a slower car on a more confined racetrack, the airflow to the radiator is going to be significantly less. Because of this, most radiators built for short-track racing use fewer fins to promote better flow through the radiator. "For a 1/4- to 3/8-mile track, I would recommend a radiator with a fin count in the range of 14 to 15 per inch with a two-row core," says C&R Radiators' Chris Paulsen. "As you get faster, you can increase the fin count, but on the lower speed tracks you will get better cooling by making sure you get plenty of flow through the radiator. More fins gives you a chance at better heat dissipation, but if you aren't getting the air moving through the radiator it doesn't do you any good."

Paulsen also recommends a regular cleaning regimen to ensure your radiator remains at peak working efficiency. If you race asphalt, rubber buildup can be a problem. Soaking your radiator in a solvent bath can help loosen up the tiny pieces of rubber that gets wedged between the fins. Just make sure, Paulsen cautions to always cap off the ends of the radiator so that the solvent doesn't get inside the coolant tubes. "Most double-pass radiators use a baffle that uses a high-temp silicone seal," he explains. "If you allow solvent to get inside the radiator it can attack that seal."

If you are racing dirt, rubber buildup isn't as large a problem, and solvent doesn't have much effect on dirt. Instead, soaking your radiator in a soapy water solution will help. After soaking your radiator (either asphalt or dirt), rinse it with low-pressure water from a garden hose from the back to push any debris out of the radiator in the direction from which it came. Never use a high-pressure water hose (the kind you will find at a car wash) on your radiator because it can easily bend the cooling fins and do more harm than good.

Finally, Paulsen says that radiator stop leak products are a racer's worst enemy. "That stuff uses a ceramic that coagulates when it makes contact with air to plug any leaks. But racers are always draining their radiators to either pull it or the engine. As soon as that happens and you get air in the system, all the stop leak inside the radiator hardens and creates a ceramic insulator inside all the cooling tubes."

[TROUBLE]

Here is my question. You are complaining about your engine temps.

When did you first bring this problem to our attention.

Did you go to the so called Experts over at 4M first and take their advice?

I will give you the best advice for free. If you listen you can thank me later.

If you don't - or if someone tells you that I don't know what I am talking about and you value their advice more than mine and you ruin your engine - well then screw you.

There is a product on the market called EVANS - it's not cheap. We have used it in everything from our race car to our tractor. It's not one of these so called water wetter additives that you read about. It's not some miracle cure for a sick racecar. It's not some trick aditive that will promise you to give you 2/10th a second faster lap times.

It is probably the best kept secret in the NASCAR garage. All I will tell you is that it works. Even better yet is the fact that the hotter it gets the better it works. It has no water in it and you don't put any water in your coolant system and you even drain all the water out of your coolant system and run the engine dry and then even after you put the EVANS in it - you start it up and let it run 10 or 15 minutes until all the steam comes out of the radiator.

You cannot run water in the system and if you add anti freeze - you have to drain it within 2 weeks. It doesn't boil - atleast not from what I saw - and it will take temp's of up to 270* and still stay in the system.

It's not the water temps that kills the performance of a race engine. It is that the coolant starts to boil and you loose performance as the coolant system looses it's efficienty.

The hotter you can run a engine - safely - the more performance you can get out of it. The NASCAR people right now look for 240* and they don't get worried until they get around 245 - 250* because they then know that there is a problem that has to be addresses immediately.

You must use a good Racing Synthetic Motor Oil in your RACE ENGINE.

If nothing else - buy that Joe GIBB'S Synthetic Racing Oil. Chris Steele is sponsored by them and has told me that he can run several nights on one oil change and only has to change the oil about 4 times a year running a 2 night a week series for 6 months. Chris also told me that Joe Gibb's Racing would give him any amount of oil that he asks for - but his oil really never showed any signs of break down and his engine shows very little sign of wear.

[Trevor Blue 47]

Dude sell the motor!!!!!!

[TROUBLE]

Here is some more advice:

BUY a NEW Stewart Stage 2 or Stage 3 water pump!

Use the proper Racing Rad for your application. If it is more than 3 years old - throw it away and BUY a new one!

Get rid of them WATER RESTRICTORS you are using.. Any serious engine builder will laugh when they see one of them. They are a joke! Plus the smaller the restrictor - the less water flow you are going to get - which will make the engine run hotter - not cooler.

[camlobe]

No restrictor? Huummmmmmmm, I was told to run a water restrictor so the water stays in the radiator longer to cool and not so much flow thru the hot motor......always worked for me......BTW, have the heads and block and all checked, I had an over heating problem the end of last year all of a sudden, found out the block was cracked between 2 and 4 cylinder wall. Didnt lose any water and I did like you, I tried everything.

[Trevor Blue 47]

But I thought you could not work on a crate motor? Those motors are supossed to be race ready out the box, right? So take the motor back to where you got it and tell them its not doing right. This he said, she said crap ain't gonna do you no good man, but blow a motor.

[Dwayne]

But I thought you could not work on a crate motor? Those motors are supossed to be race ready out the box, right? So take the motor back to where you got it and tell them its not doing right. This he said, she said crap ain't gonna do you no good man, but blow a motor.


Trevor raises a very good point..

[camlobe]

Exactly right. Get rid of it....

[dirtracer76]

downy fabric softner

[TROUBLE]

You use a thermostat.

It might sound funny until you think about it. You want the motor to get to operating temperatures as fast as it can and then you want to keep it there.

A simple 180 - 195 Racing thermostat will do just that along with about a 24 lbs. cap.

If you read your warranty for a Crate Motor - it is void as soon as you put it on the track.

You can take and have it rebuilt - but my guess is that you have a external problem and not a internal problem.

I can't see any further into it than you can and I'm not the one beating on it night after night and I'm not the one working on it. But I saw little things on many peoples motors that made me go HUUUMMMM..

First step I took once was to tear apart a Advance Auto Parts Water Pump.
As soon as I saw the tin impeller blades - I threw it as far as I could.

Second is to get rid of faulty equpt. such as flex hoses for the rad..

I once spent the better part of a day trying every hose in Advance Auto Parts until I found a matched set for my racecar. It don't matter if it is 5 feet long as long as it has the right bends in it and you can make it fit.

I saw people try to wash out radiators and even drop them on the floor every 3rd night of racing to get the mud out of them. Your best bet there is to use a shaker screen and large holes in the front bumper cover.

If you have the ground clearance - you can even use a small ground sweep like the old Trans Am's use.

Another step is to make sure that you have a good fabricated box built around the rad for proper air flow. That the fan is half out and half in the box and that you don't use a flex fan. They just don't work.

Some one jumping on the Internet and saying why is my car heating up is about as silly as me calling the doctor and asking him what is wrong with me over the phone. Until he gives you a good examination - you just can't be sure.

[TROUBLE]

No restrictor? Huummmmmmmm, I was told to run a water restrictor so the water stays in the radiator longer to cool and not so much flow thru the hot motor......always worked for me......BTW, have the heads and block and all checked, I had an over heating problem the end of last year all of a sudden, found out the block was cracked between 2 and 4 cylinder wall. Didnt lose any water and I did like you, I tried everything.

When you restrict the flow of water - it does not absorb more heat - because it stays in the block longer. That is a old wives tale. The truth is [ and C & R Radiators will back me up on this one ] is that the faster you move the coolant through the motor the more heat it will wick away from the block.

Stewart even makes a electric water pump that is placed in one of the radiator hoses that boost's the coolant circulation speed of the water. It is advertised for Super Speedway motors and is also used in Parade cars - where the pullies are under driven and the water speed in the motor is too slow to keep the engine cool....

[Dirtmover]

a little late butt, jeff smith showed me a very simple trick that is worth about 15 to25 degrees. under the nose air creates a low pressure area ,air moving in a circle da.if interrested i will give exact dim. of sheet metal but sheet metal connects to bottom tube on nose frame in the center.brake metal on each side to strengthen.take shrinking pliers and conform into a simi radius.other end should be about half way up shaker screen and radiator. works very,very well

[Dirtmover]

a little late butt, jeff smith showed me a very simple trick that is worth about 15 to25 degrees. under the nose air creates a low pressure area ,air moving in a circle da.if interrested i will give exact dim. of sheet metal but sheet metal connects to bottom tube on nose frame in the center.brake metal on each side to strengthen.take shrinking pliers and conform into a simi radius.other end should be about half way up shaker screen and radiator. works very,very well. you can also put a peice of cheap door screen on shaker screen to keep fine rocks and dirt out of radiator. works for us :secret:

[Racerchaser]

Trevor raises a very good point..






Technical Notes: These engines are sealed at the intake manifold, cylinder head, front cover, and oil pan with special twist off bolt heads. The 350 HP @ 5000 RPM was derived from a superflow dyno using a 4 barrel 650 cfm Holley carburetor P/N 80541-1, 32" long by 1 5/8" to a 1 3/4" stepped header with a 3" collector, and 92 octane unleaded gasoline. This engine package DOES NOT include a water pump. Oil pan clears most GM rear steer chassis with stock engine location. Oil pan is 8" deep at sump.