Rules change?

[My Name Is Carol]

Why the change in regards to the SB2 heads? Isn't it a slight contradiction when you say "any aluminum head"? It's not about the heads, or at least that was my understanding. I thought it was a "Steel Block Series". And also, why does the titanium valves even matter? It's just a valve; it may be a little lighter, but it won't help you win.

That sucks. The 03 SLM was looking forward to running with you guys in the series, but oh well. Find somewhere else I guess.

[Racerchaser]

Carol engines apparently aren't your deal.

The value train is the top half of the engine, titanium valves will let you crank that bad boy another maybe 300 rpm's.

They are also a lot stronger and therefore wear less.

SB2 heads worked right are very expensive and this is what S M A R T wants to get away from

[purplerose22603]

They also change weights requirements and stuff. Everyone should look very closely at the rules again.

[Bubba0369]

But think about this; Titanium valves are also for durability. And the question we had was that it was a little bit of a contradiction, any alluminum head. Then, added recently was "except SB2 heads". We ran with the same crowd that is gonna run the SMART Series 2 years ago at Clary's when they ran the STEEL BLOCK race. We added all the weight penalties just like other local drivers and there clearly was no advantage. Just a question. I guess we were looking forward to running with a different group of racers when they come down here for series events, but I guess those will be our weekends off now.

[Racerchaser]

BUBBA; THIS IS WHAT IS A VERY CONTROVERSIAL RULE,
WEIGHT WILL BE ADDED TO MAKE THE COMPETITION EQUAL.

A- HOW MUCH
B- WHERE DO YOU ADD IT
C- AND THIS ONE IS THE KILLER; AT THE OFFICIALS DISCRETION



e. The head rules will be watched closely and kept under tight control. In the event a competitor is deemed to have an advantage, weights will be altered for that competitor at the officials discretion. This will only be used as a means to even competition if necessary.

[My Name Is Carol]

What we are saying Bill, is that the rules have been changed in terms of the SB2, we weren't talking about adding weight or any of that. Adding weight isn't an issue.We want a clear answer from Chris Hammer as to why the no SB2 heads and titanium valves, when they were not listed before.

[Racerchaser]

WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR


They also change weights requirements and stuff. Everyone should look very closely at the rules again.

[newagepromo]

Carol, everyone please bear with me a second. This series has become a HUGE undertaking (more than anticipated). Here is my problem. We ran similar rules at the Xtreme 100 back in November. There basically were no head rules whatsoever except for aluminum head penalties. There was never any question to the rules or competitiveness. Now I am looking at incorporating over 6 different track rules into one rule so everyone has a chance to run with limited or no changes on their part. This has been the hardest part of the whole deal. If I say "any steel block" and leave it at that, then the tracks with no aluminum heads or 360 and smaller engines will not run and visaverca. I have been on both sides of the fence on all of these issues. I have drove all kinds of racecars for over 13 years so some of these decisions have been very dificult for me.
On the SB2 heads. To say SB2 heads were ok, then it opens up to the blocks that they are bolted to. It no longer becomes a bolt-on set of heads. The SB2 heads are by far the most superior head out there right now when done right and as stated above, very expensive to do so. There are also some other similar heads from "Nascar Country" that are out there. This was never intended to be an expensive deal. I have some tracks that won't even talk to me when you say steel block. They think open rules and mega dollars. My 3 year plan is to eventually bring this to a spec series to a point. By spec I mean a controlled 360 or less cubic inch engine NOT CRATES.
I know some people will find our rules not to their liking in their area, and I apologize. Please take a minute and understand what I am trying to deal with so everyone has a chance to compete, high dollar and low dollar teams alike.
Everyone feel free to contact my e-mail and I will discuss things more with each of you. I can go on longer here, but this really isn't the place.
Thank you!
Chris Hammer
S.M.A.R.T - Director
P.S.- The titanium valves are not much of an issue with me right now as much as the tire compounds are!

[newagepromo]

Sorry, my direct e-mail is hammersigns@yahoo.com

[My Name Is Carol]

Carol, everyone please bear with me a second. This series has become a HUGE undertaking (more than anticipated). Here is my problem. We ran similar rules at the Xtreme 100 back in November. There basically were no head rules whatsoever except for aluminum head penalties. There was never any question to the rules or competitiveness. Now I am looking at incorporating over 6 different track rules into one rule so everyone has a chance to run with limited or no changes on their part. This has been the hardest part of the whole deal. If I say "any steel block" and leave it at that, then the tracks with no aluminum heads or 360 and smaller engines will not run and visaverca. I have been on both sides of the fence on all of these issues. I have drove all kinds of racecars for over 13 years so some of these decisions have been very dificult for me.
On the SB2 heads. To say SB2 heads were ok, then it opens up to the blocks that they are bolted to. It no longer becomes a bolt-on set of heads. The SB2 heads are by far the most superior head out there right now when done right and as stated above, very expensive to do so. There are also some other similar heads from "Nascar Country" that are out there. This was never intended to be an expensive deal. I have some tracks that won't even talk to me when you say steel block. They think open rules and mega dollars. My 3 year plan is to eventually bring this to a spec series to a point. By spec I mean a controlled 360 or less cubic inch engine NOT CRATES.
I know some people will find our rules not to their liking in their area, and I apologize. Please take a minute and understand what I am trying to deal with so everyone has a chance to compete, high dollar and low dollar teams alike.
Everyone feel free to contact my e-mail and I will discuss things more with each of you. I can go on longer here, but this really isn't the place.
Thank you!
Chris Hammer
S.M.A.R.T - Director
P.S.- The titanium valves are not much of an issue with me right now as much as the tire compounds are!


I think you have good points, but, some teams won't be able to compete without spending money to change over to conform to your current set of rules. (Not just at CLR, but WCS if that opens and Clary's)
Thanks for your quick response, answers and your availability to answer these questions and concerns.

[jojoracer]

not to open a whole bag of worms but if
you run spec tires no groving and punch
55 or higher the sb2 will have no advantage
neither will a 468 cu in pumping out 800 + hp
ti valves is not an issue everybody has them
no one wants to build another set of heads
when you starting talking about cost of engines
and figuring that into the rules cost go up not
down you can build a legal street stock engine
for $ 20,000 or a $ 8,000 super engine I want to
support anything to help people race. If I show
up to a fast 1/2 mile track to run supers with
a 500 hp limited mtr, even with a wt break I don't
expect to win, but I do expect not to get lapped.
Wishing Steel Block Mafia Luck is the new series..

[jbatten21]

I like the rules max engine 365ci all steel blocks no aluminun blocks,any steel head can match port 1 1/2 only any valves,can run flat tappit, roller cam....if you have aluminun heads can match port 1 1/2 only, any aluminun heads max carb 750cfm with 50lbs in front of motor plate. DONT RESTRICT steel head guys on carbs can run any carb.............................................. ...no weight penalty for roller cams in steel head motors just a option........................................
TIRES only hoosier spec d55
american racer spec md56
may groove, sipe,grind and no soakin must punch on duro 52 or harder
just a little somthing to seeif it works on motor rules could add alittle something too them just an idea
weights crates 2150
any steel head /block 2300
aluminum heads 2450

[V1SLM]

Why the change in regards to the SB2 heads? Isn't it a slight contradiction when you say "any aluminum head"? It's not about the heads, or at least that was my understanding. I thought it was a "Steel Block Series". And also, why does the titanium valves even matter? It's just a valve; it may be a little lighter, but it won't help you win.

That sucks. The 03 SLM was looking forward to running with you guys in the series, but oh well. Find somewhere else I guess.
They can still run, they have a all steel 23 degree engine that runs very well....SL

[V1SLM]

I like the rules max engine 365ci all steel blocks no aluminun blocks,any steel head can match port 1 1/2 only any valves,can run flat tappit, roller cam....if you have aluminun heads can match port 1 1/2 only, any aluminun heads max carb 750cfm with 50lbs in front of motor plate. DONT RESTRICT steel head guys on carbs can run any carb.............................................. ...no weight penalty for roller cams in steel head motors just a option........................................
TIRES only hoosier spec d55
american racer spec md56
may groove, sipe,grind and no soakin must punch on duro 52 or harder
just a little somthing to seeif it works on motor rules could add alittle something too them just an idea
weights crates 2150
any steel head /block 2300
aluminum heads 2450These rules will work the best combining the mid atlantic, and let the Hagerstown guys run the all steel 406's with 2 barrels at 2300lbs, Heck, let the SB2's run with a 390 carb as long as they are under 365ci, allow titainium valves, the series really should say away from valve angles less than 19 degrees, IF the guys out there want to run supers- let them, if they want to run limited- let them, the super guys already have a series, WOO, Clash,etc, go run them, I would if I could afford the engines, But I cant and I admit that, Heck usually I'll run some of those with my junk and still do well, so anyway this series is for us small guys and I know there are alot of us out there...Spencer

[V1SLM]

OK- lets look at it like this, I understand what the LM guys from Clarys wants to do with the rules, I understand what CLR guys want, But we travel alot and run spec races everywhere and it seems that Chris's original rules would work the best, BUT Flexibility is needed and rules cannot be CHANGED back and forth, And if Chris gets WCS the rules need to be the same as SMART, so many people forget that when WCS was packed with latemodels the rule were simple all steel 23 degree 365ci or less- roller-dry sump-2300lbs, 23 degree all steel unlimited ci- steel block any aluminum head 365 or less- 2400lbs, unlimited open engines 2500lbs with 50lbs on motor plate, all weights were at end of race, WCS was super competitive when it was like that, Those were some good nights racing with the J@N 1, Porky, Travis, Hank, Shawn, James B.,Scooter,Ray, Greg, Ronnie, the list would go endless with these rules and I know all those guys still have their steel head stuff..Enough Said, Chris Call me, I can tell you some unbiased stories of good racing- I know first hand what happend when the rules opened up--NO CARS....336-755-5351 Spencer V1

[SignMaster36]

I like the rules max engine 365ci all steel blocks no aluminun blocks,any steel head can match port 1 1/2 only any valves,can run flat tappit, roller cam....if you have aluminun heads can match port 1 1/2 only, any aluminun heads max carb 750cfm with 50lbs in front of motor plate. DONT RESTRICT steel head guys on carbs can run any carb.............................................. ...no weight penalty for roller cams in steel head motors just a option........................................
TIRES only hoosier spec d55
american racer spec md56
may groove, sipe,grind and no soakin must punch on duro 52 or harder
just a little somthing to seeif it works on motor rules could add alittle something too them just an idea
weights crates 2150
any steel head /block 2300
aluminum heads 2450

these rules sound good there simular to the charlotte race we had last year

[SignMaster36]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwre03
Let's get them rules right. What kind of limits are the ford and dodge on? Can they run cup and busch cyl heads? What about chevy's r07 heads? What about darts little chief cyl heads @11 degrees? They will rival sb2. Seems like not much thought went into these rules, but amendments were made to please a few. Oh, lets not forget about valves, no titanium? Why not rule out hollow stems as well? Hey let's keep them stock size while we're at it! The rules need to be looked over again to remove some of the holes and clarify the rest. Besides, it's almost time to race and all of my engines are ready, plus the ones I fix for others are ready also. Good luck to the SMART Series, I'm sure they will do well and I'll find a place to race my slm. But come on, crates against a legal 18 degree alm head?

[V1SLM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwre03
Let's get them rules right. What kind of limits are the ford and dodge on? Can they run cup and busch cyl heads? What about chevy's r07 heads? What about darts little chief cyl heads @11 degrees? They will rival sb2. Seems like not much thought went into these rules, but amendments were made to please a few. Oh, lets not forget about valves, no titanium? Why not rule out hollow stems as well? Hey let's keep them stock size while we're at it! The rules need to be looked over again to remove some of the holes and clarify the rest. Besides, it's almost time to race and all of my engines are ready, plus the ones I fix for others are ready also. Good luck to the SMART Series, I'm sure they will do well and I'll find a place to race my slm. But come on, crates against a legal 18 degree alm head?Ronnie, your engine is legal at 2350lbs. Greg, what you gonna race at CLR? SB2 wont work, What then, Is Clary's going to open? If not where ya'll gonna race? 1 time a month at FMS? Ford can run the N heads and roush standard valve angles, dodge can run standard valve angles, no cup stuff, hate it if you run mopar!, to heavy anyway, why all the crying, put in your steel head and kick some dust just like it is, its going to the old rules at WCS too if Chris works it out anyway, Screw it who cares I'll be there, if yall go, good, if not, then some good cars just wont be there, I was just wanting some good cars from eastern NC to represent how good we are down here, especially on a level playing field, it was 24-30 cars at Charlotte, and I'm sure Smart will have just as many with the payout....Spencer:11Cry:

[gwre03]

should have known my opinion would bring a response from the pros . i have not done any crying i simply voiced my concern on how these rules were written because they lack depth and reasoning. i have a steel head with titanium valves and a carb that wont pass the no goes .i also never said i was going to run sb2 at clr ,never said i wasnt either. if sb2 wont work on new surface thats my problem ,if it does ...... please call me with any further insults or negative comments you may have for me as i do not wish to discuss them in this forum

[SignMaster36]

Ronnie, your engine is legal at 2350lbs. Greg, what you gonna race at CLR? SB2 wont work, What then, Is Clary's going to open? If not where ya'll gonna race? 1 time a month at FMS? Ford can run the N heads and roush standard valve angles, dodge can run standard valve angles, no cup stuff, hate it if you run mopar!, to heavy anyway, why all the crying, put in your steel head and kick some dust just like it is, its going to the old rules at WCS too if Chris works it out anyway, Screw it who cares I'll be there, if yall go, good, if not, then some good cars just wont be there, I was just wanting some good cars from eastern NC to represent how good we are down here, especially on a level playing field, it was 24-30 cars at Charlotte, and I'm sure Smart will have just as many with the payout....Spencer:11Cry:

Spencer, I AINT CRYING TO NO DANG BODY ive already said in another post i aint running, so have at it! I DONT CARE THERES OTHER PLACES TO RUN!!!!!!!! I AINT YOUR TYPICAL CRYBABY RACER IF I CAN RUN W/O ALOT OF CHANGES I WILL, BUT IF NOT I WONT! THIS IS THE REASON I HAVENT BEEN ON THIS SITE IN THE LAST YEAR!:10Cry: GO LUCK THIS YAER

[jbatten21]

these rules sound good there simular to the charlotte race we had last year
thanks Ronnie, just want to keep it basic thats all......... i would like too see it like this

[jbatten21]

OK- lets look at it like this, I understand what the LM guys from Clarys wants to do with the rules, I understand what CLR guys want, But we travel alot and run spec races everywhere and it seems that Chris's original rules would work the best, BUT Flexibility is needed and rules cannot be CHANGED back and forth, And if Chris gets WCS the rules need to be the same as SMART, so many people forget that when WCS was packed with latemodels the rule were simple all steel 23 degree 365ci or less- roller-dry sump-2300lbs, 23 degree all steel unlimited ci- steel block any aluminum head 365 or less- 2400lbs, unlimited open engines 2500lbs with 50lbs on motor plate, all weights were at end of race, WCS was super competitive when it was like that, Those were some good nights racing with the J@N 1, Porky, Travis, Hank, Shawn, James B.,Scooter,Ray, Greg, Ronnie, the list would go endless with these rules and I know all those guys still have their steel head stuff..Enough Said, Chris Call me, I can tell you some unbiased stories of good racing- I know first hand what happend when the rules opened up--NO CARS....336-755-5351 Spencer V1
thats cool to spencer like them rules also its all opinons anyway may not use this at all lol but i like them too................

[Dwayne]

THIS IS THE REASON I HAVENT BEEN ON THIS SITE IN THE LAST YEAR!


:wow3_nbs: :07Sucks: :smiley_397:

[rb]

:wow3_nbs: :07Sucks: :smiley_397:

:lol: A sponsor doesn't like the site? :i_dont_believ_it:

[weaklink9]

to many rule just set a ENGINE rule and a WEIGHT rule, and last a TIRE rule then race. all of your series done that for many year until they finally came up with one weight rule and
running the series TIRES because this stuff is goin to go on all year

[jbatten21]

to many rule just set a ENGINE rule and a WEIGHT rule, and last a TIRE rule then race. all of your series done that for many year until they finally came up with one weight rule and
running the series TIRES because this stuff is goin to go on all year
i think they are trying to get something together that may be fair for all cars 2 run different tracks...

[SignMaster36]

:lol: A sponsor doesn't like the site? :i_dont_believ_it:

NOT THE SITE THE DRAMA!!

[rb]

NOT THE SITE THE DRAMA!!

:smile: Gotcha.

[weaklink9]

has anyone else heard anything on what engine rules they are goin to run

[newagepromo]

The final rules are posted on the website. All glitches on the site are done (I hope).
Hammer

[beachler21]

I have ran at Clarys.We were running an all steel 421 open carb.We finished 2nd behind an Alum head motor, and a crate motor ran 3rd.Pretty even i thought.
This Past fall we went to Challenger Same rules just add weight for what you got motor wise.They had 78 cars and no one had a big disadvantage, it was great racing.
The better racers will run up front no matter what rules you put on them.
Chris keep up the good work and i hope everything goes great for your series and hope to be a part of some races
Billy